Following is the transcript of the interview:
Rajdeep Sardesai: Has the saint of Ralegan become the country's hero?
Anna Hazare: I am a simple worker. It is not proper to call me a saint, otherwise people will just come to visit me and not do any work.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Did you ever imagine 5-6 months back that your fast at Jantar Mantar would have such a huge impact? You have been fasting since 1986. You have sat on 11 fasts. Did you ever think this fast would have such an impact?
Anna Hazare: I too sometimes think of this. Why did the country rally behind a Fakir like me.
Perhaps it is God's wish that I have to do something good for this country, that he has created me.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you think you would have managed such a support had you done this agitation in Ralegan or in Mumbai?
Anna Hazare: This is true. Delhi is India's capital and the media helped in taking the agitation to every home in the country.
Rajdeep Sardesai: What is the biggest achievement of this agitation?
Anna Hazare: The biggest achievement of this agitation is the rise of the youth, because of their fervour it is now a matter of time before India gets rid of corruption.
Rajdeep Sardesai: But corruption cannot be eradicated by mere sloganeering. Corruption cannot be rid only by wearing Anna's cap.
Anna Hazare: This I have said earlier also. One does not become Anna by merely writing 'I am Anna' on the cap. To become Anna you have to have high morals, be ready to sacrifice, be prepared for humiliations and continue to burn like a lamp.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Will you agitate again if the standing committee does not accept your suggestions in the Jan Lokpal Bill?
Anna Hazare: Yes we will agitate, but this time not against parliament. We will identify parliamentarians in the standing committee who oppose the bill and sing bhajans in front of their houses and during elections go to their constituencies and prevail upon the voters not to vote for such people.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Does this mean you are slowly moving towards politics?
Anna Hazare: There is no politics in this. We are against corruption which is ruining this country and making the common man miserable. This is an effort to make the country a better place to live in.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Your opponents may say that if you insist on only your version of the Jan Lokpal Bill, it will amount to blackmail?
Anna Hazare: We are not saying accept our version of the Bill as it is. But we want a good Bill in the interest of the country.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you ready to accept suggestions from activists like Jayaprakash Narayan and Aruna Roy who too have their own versions of the Jan lokpal Bill.
Anna Hazare: Absolutely.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you ready to compromise on the Jan Lokpal Bill?
Anna Hazare: If there are good suggestions we will accept them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are ready to talk to other activists.
Anna Hazare: Yes.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You are not insisting that only your version of the Bill is acceptable to you?
Anna Hazare: No. That will be like dictatorship.
Rajdeep Sardesai: This is not dictatorship?
Anna Hazare: No.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Will you campaign against corrupt politicians in next year's assembly elections in Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand and Punjab? Will you in some form connect your movement against corruption with elections?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely.Vidhan Sabha and Lok Sabha are sacred temples of democracy. Only sacred people should go to such places. If non sacred people go to such places it is a threat to democracy. Today so many parliamentarians are criminals. It is important to make people aware that they should not send such corrupt people to parliament.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Will you campaign against candidates who are corrupt and have a criminal record?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So is this not politics?
Anna Hazare: How is this politics? It is our duty to make people aware if wrong-doers are elected.
Rajdeep Sardesai: But don't' you feel some political party will try to take advantage of this. Nitin Gadkari has said he is ready to support you if you go along with his party. LK Advani too is going on a yatra.
Anna Hazare: That will happen. This has happened many times in the past. When I protested during the Congress rule, BJP-Shiv Sena people tried getting close to me. Their government came to power and they went a step ahead of them. The cycle of agitations continued.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So you will not associate yourself with any political outfit.
Anna Hazare: Absolutely no.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You will not associate yourself with any political yatra like LK Advani's.
Anna Hazare: My point is if the BJP leaders say they are ready to support me then why don't they first bring the Lokayukta Bill in the states they are in power. They must first act in people's favour.
Rajdeep Sardesai: People think BJP is using you as a pawn against the Congress. Are you completely denying this allegation?
Anna Hazare: If Congress feels like this then why is it misleading us. Since the beginning of this agitation they have been lying. I was put in jail as part of a conspiracy.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Who do you think was behind this conspiracy? You had earlier taken Chidambaram's name. Do you think the PM was misled?
Anna Hazare: I think Manmohan Singh is not the only PM. There are many people who think they are the prime minister.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you think the PM was misled?
Anna Hazare: Who listens to the PM? He is remote controlled by many people.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Sonia Gandhi wanted you to join the drafting committee when you started the fast in April. Do you think Sonia Gandhi was also misled or do you think that she is a part of this conspiracy?
Anna Hazare: Whether it is Sonia Gandhi or Manmohan Singh, they feel they have to take such leaders along if they want to run the government. Indira Gandhi became Prime Minister not because of Congress workers, but because she worked for the poor.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you saying that Manmohan Singh should learn from Indira Gandhi?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You are referred to as a Gandhian, but a few days back you said that the corrupt should be hanged. Gandhi never said that anybody should be hanged to death.
Anna Hazare: That is why I took those words back. But there should be life imprisonment for such corrupt people and the money they had appropriated should be seized form them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Your movement has been accused of having a dubious source of funding, and authors like Arundhati Roy have also brought up this issue. Does this worry you?
Anna Hazare: This is no cause for worry for me. There is no question of black money in my movement against corruption
Rajdeep Sardesai: What will you do if you discover that black money is funding your movement?
Anna Hazare: If I get to know that black money is involved, I will back out of the movement. I will run this movement till there are no allegations against us. Those who make such charges are not always above suspicion themselves
Rajdeep Sardesai: Have you told your team members Arvind Kejriwal, Manish Sisodia to ensure that the funding for this movement is not from dubious sources, or from industrialists who are associated with black money?
Anna Hazare: I have warned my team mates. I have asked them to hire a Chartered Accountant to audit the finances of the movement April onwards. I have asked them to give me a copy and send one to all the core committee members as well.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Vilasrao Deshmukh, who was one of the negotiators during your August fast, has been named in the Adarsh scam. This gives an impression that you are negotiating with tainted ministers.
Anna Hazare: He was the Prime Minister's representative, I never called him. Vilasrao Deshmukh hasn't become any less tainted just by meeting me.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Do you really believe that India can have a political party comprising of non-corrupt people?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely. All parties have some non-corrupt leaders. If all those politicians come together, a good party can be formed.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You have said that you don't want to lead such a party, but will you encourage Arvind Kejriwal or Kiran Bedi to be part of one?
Anna Hazare: I don't want that. This party should have non-corrupt people with political knowledge and experience. If Arvind or Kiran become a part of such an outfit, people will level allegations against me.
Rajdeep Sardesai: There is an allegation that this is a middle-class movement and that the rural population isn't involved with the Anna movement. Do you believe this is true or is it just propaganda?
Anna Hazare: There are people who will always criticize. They have not seen the fact that we got a lot of support at the local level.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Some people who gave speeches at Ramlila Maidan were of questionable intent. Will you keep such people away from your movement?
Anna Hazare: Some people want to use me to gain political mileage, but I have never trusted them. People who are part of the movement should have a clean image and our funding should also be clean.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Medha Patkar, for example, has said that you should include the Dalits, Muslims and Adivasis in the movement. She says it's not enough to break your fast at the hands of a Dalit or a Muslim girl. Do you agree?
Anna Hazare: I agree with this. This is why we have decided to double the core committee's strength and include people from all communities.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So the core committee will not become like a political party?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely not.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So the core committee won't be limited to just 4-5 members?
Anna Hazare: Yes. During the fast we noticed that Hindus, Muslims and Christians participated equally. The communal divide is fuelled by politicians, and we want to unite everyone and move ahead.
Rajdeep Sardesai: The government has sent members of your team Breach of Privilege notices. Do you think this was fair?
Anna Hazare: Congress' intention is not right. They gave notices to Kiran Bedi and Arvind Kejriwal, tomorrow they will also send me a notice.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You say that Parliament is supreme, then doesn't it have the right to send a Breach of Privilege notice?
Anna Hazare: We trust Parliament, but not these parliamentarians. So we will never go against Parliament.
Rajdeep Sardesai: But you will go against the very same Parliament if they don't pass the Jan Lokpal Bill?
Anna Hazare: We will sing bhajans in front of houses of Parliamentarians who oppose the Bill.
Rajdeep Sardesai: People have started to feel that all politicians are corrupt. Do you agree?
Anna Hazare: That's not true. All politicians are not corrupt. But the few corrupt ones have managed to defame the others.
Rajdeep Sardesai: When, at Ramlila Maidan, Kiran Bedi makes fun of politicians and Om Puri calls them 'illiterate and backward', do you think that is right? Won't people stop believing in democracy?
Anna Hazare: I keep telling people not to blame all politicians. I feel that all the non-corrupt leaders from BJP and Congress should come together and form a new outfit.
Rajdeep Sardesai: If non-corrupt people from all parties join hands to form an outfit, will you support them?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely, I will support them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Will you lead such an outfit?
Anna Hazare: No, I will not lead them. But I will support them and I will tell people to vote for them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are saying that you will support such a party that non-corrupt politicians form?
Anna Hazare: Absolutely, because that is the only solution left to save the nation.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Why don't you lead such a party?
Anna Hazare: No, I am a simple man.
Rajdeep Sardesai: But you are now a hero for many. If you lead such a party, people will be drawn to vote. You had earlier told me that you don't believe in elections, because you feel people only win after luring voters with money and alcohol. Have you changed your mind?
Anna Hazare: No, I'm not a hero. So many people support me, but I still sleep on the floor in the temple. I still live in an 8x10 room.
Rajdeep Sardesai: You say your next fight will be about electoral reforms. You talk about 'Right to Recall' and 'Right to Reject'. Do you think they are practical options?
Anna Hazare: Yes, they can be implemented. Our citizens have become aware now.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Is it practical to hold elections again and again?
Anna Hazare: Why not? Let it happen. If a small expense is going to save all the crores wasted in corruption, won't it benefit the nation?
Rajdeep Sardesai: If the government doesn't agree on these reforms, will you again go on a fast?
Anna Hazare: We are ready to discuss these issues with the government. I am going to write a letter to the Prime Minister and urge him to initiate a discussion on these reforms. If they are not interested, then we will protest again.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Some people consider these protests a form of blackmail. What would you say to them?
Anna Hazare: In 1950, Indian citizens became the rulers of our nation, and they have sent their servants to Parliament to implement beneficial laws. When Parliamentarians don't do their work, then their bosses, i.e. the citizens, have a right to pressurise them.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Activist Irom Sharmila has been on a fast for the last 12 years. Her supporters have invited you to Manipur. Do you want to be associated with that protest, or do you only want to focus on corruption?
Anna Hazare: Two of our representatives will go to Imphal, understand their issues, and then we will discuss it for sure.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Will you join other movements or only focus on corruption?
Anna Hazare: For the wellness of the society and the nation, we must support all the good movements happening around the country.
Rajdeep Sardesai: So you will go to Khairlanji if atrocities are committed on Dalits?
Anna Hazare: Yes, definitely.
Rajdeep Sardesai: If there are Hindu-Muslim riots, will you go there to help maintain peace?
Anna Hazare: Yes, absolutely. We will go.
Rajdeep Sardesai: In just 6 months you have become a national hero. Do you agree that your life has changed?
Anna Hazare: I don't agree with that. I don't like the word 'hero'. I am the same person who still lives in a temple. Till the time I live, I will remain the same. I do not need any security. Did Bhagat Singh, Rajguru ask for security? If they did, would we have gained independence. I have written a letter to the Home Minister saying I don't need security. Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi were given security, did they not die?
Rajdeep Sardesai: What about TV cameras?
Anna Hazare: That is why I told the media I won't talk to them. I don't want to become a hero. This fame is what creates ego.
Rajdeep Sardesai: Some people criticised you for going to a five star hospital instead of a government one. What will you say to them?
Anna Hazare: It doesn't matter to me. Those who want to point fingers, can keep doing so. If people at Medanta care for me and don't charge a penny, why shouldn't I go there?
Rajdeep Sardesai: What is your message for the people of Ralegan Siddhi? Some people still have to pay bribes for getting work done. What will you tell the common man who doesn't have the strength to fight a mighty government?
Anna Hazare: Yes, I know some people are forced to pay bribes. If they want to stop this, they have to come forward and join our movement. They have to be ready to take a beating, and also to go to jail.
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